Top findings
- Significant positive changes in all 3 self-reported symptoms: neck pain/headache (8 to 3), evening sensitivity/stress (7 to 2), and inconsistent stool/bloating (8 to 5).
- No change in microbial diversity from baseline. Small increase in probiotics (8 to 9) and significant change in butyrate producers (5 to 8)
- Interesting highlights:
- Akkermansia. Most distant relative of other bacteria in the microbiome. These microbes live in the mucous membrane that lines the gut. The presence of Akkermansia is an indicator of a healthy metabolism and body weight. Elevated levels of these bacteria are observed in lean people and associated with healthy glucose metabolism. Akkermansia are typically less represented in patients with inflammation and type 2 diabetes. On the other hand, they are significantly more abundant in those who have suffered from prolonged starvation, because they can consume mucin produced by the gut lining in the absence of nutrients.
- 02% in March, up to 1.01% in June. The healthy average is from 0.020% – 1.4%, so this is a highly significant change.
- Roseburia. An important member of a symbiotic microbiome. The abundance of these bacteria increases with diets that are high in dietary fibre from vegetables. Studies have shown that low-calorie and low-fibre diets can reduce Roseburia levels by up to 80%. Roseburia helps protect the body against inflammatory bowel disease. It can synthesise butyrate, a short-chain fatty acid that has anti-cancer and anti-inflammatory properties, from dietary fibre. Intestinal inflammation is known to decrease Roseburia levels in the microbiome.
- 2.03% in March to 6.12% July
- Healthy average 0.76% – 1.8%, so this bug is overrepresented as a characteristic of Stefan’s microbial signature.
- Akkermansia. Most distant relative of other bacteria in the microbiome. These microbes live in the mucous membrane that lines the gut. The presence of Akkermansia is an indicator of a healthy metabolism and body weight. Elevated levels of these bacteria are observed in lean people and associated with healthy glucose metabolism. Akkermansia are typically less represented in patients with inflammation and type 2 diabetes. On the other hand, they are significantly more abundant in those who have suffered from prolonged starvation, because they can consume mucin produced by the gut lining in the absence of nutrients.
Transcript
Vanessa:
I’d like to introduce you to Stefan is the managing director of Puratos. And what I want to say, Stefan, is first off: thank you. Stefan has enabled me to do my research and I’m very grateful for that. And in turn, I decided that what better person could I experiment on other than Stefan? I was like, right! Come on, then. Let’s see what we can actually do.
So, um, we’re working on a project together that I think is going to change the way that we look at bread. And without Stefan’s support, I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing now. So, first of all, I wan and see what would happen with these kind of single case studies has been absolutely fascinating.
And I would very much appreciate introducing you to the team I’ve got here at The Sourdough School to discuss your results and how you got on with that. So without further ado, I’m going to introduce you to the in-house team. That’s Dr Alex Davidson, our in-house GP, Dr Elisabeth Phillips, who is our nutritionist and neuroscientist – she does all of the brain kind of stuff –and then, of course, our amazing Miguel, who you’ve actually met before and you know well, who is a gut microbiome specialist. And we’re going to have a look at what happened when you were baking, what you produced, how you felt, your physical symptoms – obviously with our GP – and also what happened with your actual gut microbiome, which is the most exciting b
So without further ado, I’m going to hand it over to Alex. Your results were amazing, so I’ll leave you to it.
Speaker 2 (Stefan): Exciting.
Speaker 1 (Alex):
Thanks, Vanessa. Hi, Stefan. So I’m Dr Alex Davidson. As Vanessa said, I’m an in-house GP, but I also work for the NHS. So I’m an NHS GP, and I’m also a functional medicine practitioner.
So I’m very much interested in, as Vanessa says, gut health, in delivering gut and brain health and how much you can actually support and optimise your health through food, through really good nutrition, which is what we’re going to be talking about. And I think what’s great is Vanessa’s just given a bit of a synopsis of, you know, how you’re involved with her, with supporting her at The Sourdough School.
And just to say now, you know, how grateful we are that you’re involved, and also that you allow the research, the studying, that she does to be completely independent. So she can get on and do what she likes. Because I think there’s a lot of power in people like you, who are case studies. I think, in medicine, we often think that the gold standard is these big randomised controlled trials, often funded by drug companies, and actually for me, as a doctor working on the shop floor, I want to see my patients get well.
And so the case studies, I think, are just as important. So, thank you very much for being a guinea pig and taking part. And I’d love it if we could just start, Stefan, if you could give me a bit of an overview of your health. You know, how things were, because obviously you took part in the trial for a reason – we know, with Vanessa’s new book – and I’d just love to hear about what was going on for you with your health, what were your main complaints?
Speaker 2:
Okay, so, well ,thank you for the introduction. Yes, I was very excited – and still am very – excited to be part of this beautiful project because I am a true believer in healthy food preventing you from becoming ill. And so I think in general, what I could say is that, well, obviously as I’m managing the business for a worldwide company, um, it brings quite a lot of travels. Which means that obviously, you’re a lot in different time zones, you’re a lot in different, um, food conditions, I would say because eating on an airplane is not the same as eating at home.
And, so I’ve been doing this job – I’m in charge of the sourdough business for Puratos and so not the whole of Puratos, that’s just for clarity – but, um, but I’ve been there for 22 years, managing the sourdough business and, and so yes, I’ve been travelling for 22 years around the world. And I think after 20 years it takes a toll on your body. For sure, the main the main hurdles for this kind of job is stress related.
Basically you have things like neck pain. You feel the pressure. That’s probably one of the things that comes first: you get pain in the neck. And I think a second one that I am very sensitive to is, um, is indeed everything which is digestion [related]. As soon as stress hits, um, it hits me in the, in the stomach, as I say, so I can feel that, um, the stressful situations will have and will have an influence on the way I digest food.
So I was particularly interested to see and read how this project could help or could influence. Um, in general, I am not a person who is eating a lot of meat. In general, I try to be careful with alcohol. I’m not a smoker. So the base I thought, for the last two years, was pretty okay.
I was a vegetarian for a couple of years, so I have always been – through my education as well – interested in food and healthy foods. But through this project, what I particularly understood is that my intake of fibres and fibre-related foodstuff, although I am a flexitarian, is still at the lower side.
And this was one of my major learnings through this process.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned fibre, because I think one thing that we know is that almost all of us don’t eat enough fibre. It’s something we learn about. I think, you know, for me, as a medical doctor, I don’t remember really learning about nutrition – which, of course, as you’ve mentioned, we both know is absolutely key to good health. And I think, you know, if you think about Vanessa’s new book, which is very much about sweet sourdough, if I was as a layperson, I wouldn’t connect baking things from from a sweet book with high fibre. And I think that’s what’s so fantastic: the fact that you can incorporate this very diverse sourdough – so, you know, the flour, the recipes – it’s actually a lot more fibre than you’d think, which I think allows people, if they are baking sourdough both savoury and sweet, to actually really increase the fibre.
00:07:17:20 – 00:07:34:24
Speaker 1
And you and I both know, with your background that, you know, fibre is so important for gut health. So it would be great to hear what you noticed in terms of your symptoms in your gut because, you know, you mentioned that my gut was bad when I was stressed. What happened to you when you started using the book as the intervention?
00:07:36:00 – 00:08:02:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, well, the first symptoms for sure were this decrease, I would say, in the pressure in my neck, that you could really feel getting improved, week after week. And then as well, I would say, um, in general that when you go to the toilet, yeah, things are are just smoother than before and much more regular than before.
00:08:03:16 – 00:08:33:15
Speaker 2
Um, I was also asked to, to follow up on the blood pressure, which […] went down in the values as we went through the project. Um, and I still believe this is also directly linked to the intake of more fibre. And, uh, and so yeah, the general well, feeling, I would say, became better and better.
00:08:33:15 – 00:08:58:18
Speaker 2
I did not lose that much weight. But for your information, if that matters, I mean, I’ve been the same weight minus one kilo over the last 20 years. Okay. So it is not really my aim. I could lose a couple of kilos and overeat like everybody else, I guess, but I don’t want to start to do yo- yo, to go down and then go up with more fat
00:08:58:20 – 00:09:32:21
Speaker 2
I know people doing that. I don’t consider that as a very good effect. So I lost, like, I don’t know, one or two kilos over the three months. But for me, it was not the aim to lose too quickly kilos to feel good. I mean, I guess we are all built in a certain way. And then, yeah, that was my main learning, and the fact that okay, you did not feel the pressure anymore like before, and, I guess the, the overall well feeling became better over the project.
00:09:33:03 – 00:09:50:05
Speaker 1
I’m intrigued about your blood pressure, actually, because one of the things we can document is that by making nutrition changes, you can actually drop the numbers of your blood pressure, as you found. And I think partly it sounds like, because, you know, the stress has got better. And we you know, I’m sure Miguel will talk a little bit about the kind of gut–brain connection.
00:09:50:05 – 00:10:03:18
Speaker 1
But I think, you know, one of the things I struggle with as a medical doctor is when people have high blood pressure, they often feel very well. And it’s found as a kind of incidental reading on a health check. And they may be in their fifties. And you have to tell them, well, you kind of need to have a pill for the rest of your life.
00:10:03:18 – 00:10:19:23
Speaker 1
And patients find that very difficult, and say, well, I feel well, why do I have to take a pill that might give me side effects? Which opens up the conversation of, well, actually, have you thought about sourdough? Have you thought about nutrition, have you thought about moving? And you often get quite good buy-in from people who don’t want to take a pill when they feel well.
00:10:20:03 – 00:10:36:05
Speaker 1
So by upping their fibre – and one way, as we can see, of doing this, is through home baking and using sourdough and increasing the diversity of your gut. And I think all of this interplays together. So it’s really great to hear your blood pressure went down, because it’s such a big risk factor for things, you know, down the line.
00:10:36:05 – 00:10:46:16
Speaker 1
And also, a lot of it is a lifestyle illness. And you’ve shown clearly that making a lifestyle intervention on this trial with Vanessa’s book has actually made a difference to you. You know, just great.
00:10:46:17 – 00:10:47:06
Speaker 2
Absolutely, yes.
00:10:47:21 – 00:11:08:07
Speaker 1
And you talked a lot about your stress and the gut, and thinking that when I’m stressed, my gut goes off. But then, I think, we can always invert that in some respects and say, well, actually, how much of it was your gut being unhappy, which then built up to a point that you actually then got stressed, because the gut talks to the brain as well as the brain talking to the gut.
00:11:08:19 – 00:11:38:07
Speaker 1
So I really like that. You know, you had that real shift. Just lastly for me, British people don’t like talking about bowels, but actually for you again, you know, most of the bowel problems we have in the UK are probably from not eating enough fibre, having probably a not particularly happy microbiome. And you know, it’s really good that you saw a shift towards being more regular, because we need to get rid of toxins in the body, we need to keep things moving and you know, there are patients out there that think that going once a week is actually normal because they’ve always been like that.
00:11:38:07 – 00:11:57:07
Speaker 1
And that makes me think, oh, we have to have a conversation about fibre here. So, you know, I just think, you know, what you’ve shown is an intervention. You know, in this study that Vanessa’s doing, you’ve actually had some really great changes. And I think, Miguel, you can go through kind of the microbiome level, which is even more fascinating, I think.
00:11:58:09 – 00:12:02:11
Speaker 2
I’m really curious. Yes.
00:12:02:11 – 00:12:25:20
Speaker 3
Thank you, Alex. Stefan, I’m very impressed by the changes in your self-reported symptoms. And of course, I’m going to want to try and find an association with things that may have happened in your microbiome. And the key thing that everybody is trying to compete against each other with is diversity. We’re all trying to be more diverse. So I’m more diverse than you, or my diversity has gone up two points, or whatever. And the interesting thing is that there was no change in your diversity, but still there was an increase in probiotic bacteria. That was good. We’ll discuss the types of bacteria that that have increased. And you started from a baseline that was pretty high. So, the test that we used is by Atlas.
00:12:57:23 – 00:13:30:01
Speaker 3
So you’ve seen the test obviously, because you’ve done it, and it uses a scale of one to ten for probiotics and and you’re starting at eight, so you’re already really high in your probiotic bacteria. And in my experience, any body who starts with a high baseline, it’s more challenging for them to actually go even a tiny little bit more than when you start with five or a four, which is pretty average.
00:13:30:01 – 00:14:02:18
Speaker 3
So, you went to nine. So a tiny amount of change in probiotics is actually really important and particularly from within those probiotics. The key thing was that Butyrate produces. So you know that not all beneficial bacteria are beneficial for the same thing. Some of them are beneficial because they are able to metabolise certain types of fibres. Some of them are beneficial because they produce anti-inflammatory substances in the gut.
00:14:03:12 – 00:14:32:12
Speaker 3
There’s a certain amount of bacteria in the gut that produce this thing called butyric acid or butyrate, and that was noticed in your results. You experienced an increase from a five, which is kind of like in the middle in Butyrate producers, to an eight, which is quite remarkable, and and we think of those, roseburia was one of the key bugs that actually increased.
00:14:33:04 – 00:15:17:23
Speaker 3
So, you actually started it in a pretty good space for your roseburia, even slightly higher than the average. But it really shot up, to a point that can actually explain why you may not have got the increase in diversity as well. And this is something very quirky and interesting. So your roseburia is actually over-represented. Roseburia, for those who are not familiar with this bug. is a butyrate metaboliser so it makes butyrate out of fibre, which is why it’s is really well reported in studies to do with the Mediterranean diet and eating the rainbow, and all the rest of these been associated with this kind of healthy eating. Now, when you have inflammation in the gut, Roseburia tends to go down as well. So that association has been seen as well. So when somebody has got anything, from just a syndrome like IBS, that is kind of not easy to explain, to a full-blown condition like Crohn’s or ulcerative colitis, where there is actual damage of the gut lining, Roseburia tends to be quite low in these people because inflammation creates an environment that Roseburia doesn’t like.
00:15:53:10 – 00:16:24:12
Speaker 3
So, it’s an interesting bug. It normally likes guts that are not inflamed. It thrives in those guts. And also […] it tends to live closer to the mucus than other bugs, because that’s the position in the gut that they tend to like, and it can feed from your mucin as well. So if there is a little bit of mucus that is spare from what all the bugs are eating, it can also metabolise that.
00:16:25:03 – 00:16:56:13
Speaker 3
It doesn’t actually create butyrate from that, only from fibre, but it can also survive if it goes into starvation mode. It can also metabolise a little bit of that, and that’s makes it into a very interesting bug. And so your own microbial signature is such that you have more than normal, which is you, normally. So it’s going to be this is a kind of, you know, situation – you started already about the average, so a 2.03% and the healthy average is from 0.76 to 1.8%.
00:16:56:13 – 00:17:18:23
Speaker 3
So you’re already a little bit higher than average based on this snapshot of two samples. That tells me already there’s a little bit of a pattern, that you are, you know, you’re better endowed in terms of like the roseburia so to speak, and you’ve gone up to 6.12. So really, a big jump. Now, this is what I was saying that is interesting.
00:17:18:23 – 00:17:46:23
Speaker 3
Sometimes people think, oh, this is so good because roseburia is so fantastic and I’ve got so much more of it. Where this is impeding you is that it is flourishing and making it more difficult for other bugs in that same space to flourish as well. So that’s why we see this is a typical situation. For somebody with an overrepresentation of a good bug, trying to get an increase in diversity becomes more difficult because they’ve got more of a good thing.
00:17:46:23 – 00:18:08:16
Speaker 3
But it’s not always good for everything. It might be good for roseburia, it might be good for other bugs around it. But in terms of diversity, it is not great, because it’s not allowed you to go even up one point in diversity. But you also have more akkermansia as well, and with akkermansia, you started from just the border of what is a healthy average.
00:18:08:24 – 00:18:35:11
Speaker 3
So 0.02% is the start of the healthy average, and it goes up to 1.4%. And you went up from March to June, you went up to 1.01%. So almost almost as high as you can go in the spectrum of the healthy levels of akkermansia, from the bottom almost to the top. And that, to me, is really relevant again, because it’s a narrow bug.
00:18:35:11 – 00:19:02:01
Speaker 3
You only have a very small amount. So to have that increase is a significant. It is also a bug that is related to again experiencing less inflammation potentially generalised in the body. That’s what the kind of like early studies are telling us. And also an improvement in outcomes to do with that metabolic conditions like diabetes, for example.
00:19:02:01 – 00:19:38:08
Speaker 3
So was the decrease in blood pressure was to do with the akkermansia? Potentially it could have been, because there’s a precedent already. Akkermansia is actually involved in metabolic management. So yeah, really interesting results – and I think if you continue to do some testing as well, you can start seeing your patterns that I may have identified. I may be wrong, but from what I’m seeing in the first couple of samples, there’s this overrepresentation of certain bugs. Is it up a current theme? O do you always have this higher roseburia? What about all that clostridia types? What about your fecal bacterium? Is it suffering as a result? Because it was pretty grey. There were not any any growth in fecal bacteria, for example. And they tend to fight for the same space because they live in the same kind of area of the gut.
00:19:59:05 – 00:20:07:24
Speaker 3
And so things like that become more apparent as you start testing more readily as well. So yeah, I look forward to talking to you more about this in the future.
00:20:08:17 – 00:20:11:06
Speaker 2
And so what is regular – every three months?
00:20:11:06 – 00:20:21:24
Speaker 3
Or well, three months is is it’s good if you’re really committed to it. Otherwise, every six months is good enough. Okay. Yeah, every six months. If you have a healthy interest in the microbiome, I think it’s really good.
00:20:23:19 – 00:20:25:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Well thank you.
00:20:25:10 – 00:20:30:16
Speaker 3
And have any questions from you about this Stefan?
00:20:31:02 – 00:20:59:19
Speaker 2
No, I only saw the, the results at the very beginning so I was desperate to hear. Because indeed, I knew I was, to be honest, pretty happy with the first results coming in. Yeah. I thought that indeed those probiotics were pretty high if you compare that to the average. So I’m very happy to see that there’s even when you’re further up, like you say, that when you’re high, you tend only to lose.
00:21:00:12 – 00:21:28:23
Speaker 2
So I’m very happy to see that this went up. And then, yeah, I always heard about the positive effect of those butyric producing, um, gut microbiome. Yeah. So, I hope it can keep me healthy for a long time if I keep my diet. So, I’m pretty, pretty amazed.
00:21:28:23 – 00:21:31:24
Speaker 1
We’ll bring on Dr Elisabeth, to take up that mantle of the diet.
00:21:32:02 – 00:21:34:12
Speaker 3
Yes, absolutely. Thanks to you, Stefan.
00:21:34:21 – 00:21:36:18
Speaker 2
Okay. Nice to meet you. Bye bye.
00:21:37:24 – 00:21:59:06
Speaker 4 (Elisabeth):
Well, hi there, Stefan. Lovely to meet you, Dr Elisabeth Phillips. And I’m the in-house nutritionist at The Sourdough School here. Thank you ever so much to Miguel and to Alex as well for really sort of beginning to delve a little bit into some of the remarkable changes that you’ve seen. And I’m really thrilled that you’re pleased with the probiotic changes because, yes, they mean a lot on many different health levels.
00:21:59:18 – 00:22:17:17
Speaker 4
But what I’d really like to do is to sort of go into some of the sort of practical side now, as well around the sourdough: some of the recipes, some of the blends that you’ve been using, and finding out a little bit more. So maybe we can try and match some of the nutrients that you’ve been eating to, maybe describing some of the changes that we’ve seen as well.
00:22:18:08 – 00:22:37:12
Speaker 4
So of course, Vanessa’s brought out this amazing book, the sweet sourdough book, which is a real game-changer, as we’ve said, you know, it kind of brings not just sourdough baking and bread right into sort of new realms with really interesting recipes. So, first of all, I’d really like to find out, what has been your favourite recipe? What have you really enjoyed baking?
00:22:39:15 – 00:23:18:17
Speaker 2
Oh, well, again, like I said, I mean, I’m not a professional baker, right? So I went through it and I think, first of all, what was most interesting for me is to get started in my home bakery on a small scale with with the MockMill, making the fresh wholemeal flour. I do have a mill at home because I’m a miller as well in my free time, but it was way too big to do [home] baking, so I think that was the first big change already is to go into a process of making your own fresh, wholemeal flour.
00:23:19:15 – 00:23:51:14
Speaker 2
Um, that was definitely one of the biggest learning. The second one I think was the whole work with the Botanical Blend that Vanessa sent us. Yeah, I think that was a very nice discovery. But again, it took me a while to, to work with it, because for me, bread is something me and, and my family – I have a family with two small children and, and, and, and a wife – so for me, bread is for the whole family as well. So most of my creations, my family had to eat with me.
00:24:01:02 – 00:24:04:07
Speaker 4
What a hardship.
00:24:04:07 – 00:24:45:21
Speaker 2
Because I am a strong believer that the younger you start educating on healthy food, the better it can only be for them in the future. So my children, they know sourdough very well. And so and I think with the Botanical Blend it was finding this is fine line where everybody appreciates it. Because it’s powerful in taste, you could easily overdose it, which probably at the beginning I did. So again, I’m a strong believer that for everything which is bread and bread-related items, it’s something you need to eat your whole life and three times a day.
00:24:46:07 – 00:24:53:01
Speaker 2
So I’m always searching for a balance that people enjoyed and can continue to eat, while being more and more healthy, while having this, this angle of healthiness built in. And you can reinforce it over time, because now even my children, all the, the fluffy fast breads, they don’t really like it anymore. But it’s a step. You cannot go from one to the other overnight, or you lose everybody. Yes. So for myself, I can do that. And I did that more than the rest of the family. But I think it’s important that with these recipes, you find balance. So I had to learn. But the whole principle of these botanicals was beautiful. And I also further elaborated on that.
00:25:35:00 – 00:25:41:07
Speaker 4
Wonderful. So you added in some more ingredients? What sorts of things did you add in?
00:25:41:07 – 00:26:08:06
Speaker 2.
Well, one thing I started to add on top of the botanicals was the ceylon tea. You might not know, but we have two children from from Sri Lanka that we adopted when they were when they were babies. So, um, yeah, some Sri Lankan culture is always getting into our household. So I took some beautiful ceylon tea.
00:26:08:10 – 00:26:08:23
Speaker 4
Yes.
00:26:08:24 – 00:26:27:03
Speaker 2
Um, because I still believe there is a lot of, of good stuff in tea: green tea, white tea and other kinds of things. So, um, so this was one of the basic ones. And the second one, as we went through the baking, I added the chicory.
00:26:27:12 – 00:26:28:00
Speaker 4
Okay.
00:26:28:03 – 00:26:46:23
Speaker 2
Yes, yes. So I saw coming back, if you want to further improve the fibre and so on, I needed some more chicory. It was recommended. Yes. So I tried to incorporate that and we have quite a nice history of chicory in Belgium as well. Wonderful.
00:26:47:13 – 00:26:49:09
Speaker 4
Okay. Yes, yes.
00:26:49:19 – 00:26:52:20
Speaker 2
I have easy access to do things like that.
00:26:53:00 – 00:27:25:05
Speaker 4,
Excellent. So and that’s what it’s all about, isn’t it. It’s about having fun with the blends as well and hopefully involving your children in the bake as well and in the fermentation process. And yeah, it makes, it makes a really big difference if you can all come together over the baking as well. So, and you said about the taste and sort of, you know, not so much for yourself, but for the children getting used to different flavours – which is obviously what the diversity blends incorporate, because there’s a whole mix and Vanessa’s diversity blends of ancient grains and different botanicals, different plants.
00:27:25:05 – 00:27:40:16
Speaker 4
And as you say, the ceylon tea probably lends quite an aromatic flavour and smell to to the product. Did you notice any difference in texture in the breads, with the different grains and the different blends?
00:27:40:16 – 00:28:04:02
Speaker 2
Um, not so much, to be honest. In my case, not so much. The only thing is that at the beginning I put the blends, in the dough and in the sourdough. Though at the end, as we went on, I basically put it in the sourdough because, um, then I took the wholemeal flour to make the bread dough, so as not to overpower it.
00:28:04:02 – 00:28:32:19
Speaker 2
And I thought as well, by going through the fermentation, it’s milder. And it’s really milder. Then it really blends very well with the flavours all together. Yeah. And was less, um, yeah, less pronounced, it was much more blended in. And I really like if I make this whole new sourdough with the Botanical Blends it really became fruity, floral and so on, but blended.
Speaker 4
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Very complementary, isn’t it? The flavors. Yeah, they really work together. So what I’d love to do as well is to maybe dive a little bit into, you know, the increases that you’ve seen in the probiotic bacteria that you’ve got in your gut as well. And interestingly, with the roseburia and the xylans in particular, we get all sorts of different fibres that we find within our foods.
00:29:04:07 – 00:29:43:19
Speaker 4
And if we’re increasing the levels of certain cereal grains, especially oats, for example, and certain types of wheat, we find that we’re able to increase these different varieties of fibre, and in particular the xylans, which are a type of heavy cellulose, which are so important and provide a really good food for Rosaburia. So I just wonder as well, you know, without doing any direct measurements, being slightly unscientific here, but you know, the sort of the connection of raising the cereal grains through the process of of enjoying the sourdough bread that that has provided the food that is required for these certain subsections, subtypes of your gut bacteria.
00:29:44:10 – 00:29:57:03
Speaker 4
And I was wondering as well, maybe with any other sort of additions, whether you’ve tried any different toppings to any of the the bakes that you’ve been doing? Any different types of fruits or anything that you’ve been adding to them?
00:29:58:01 – 00:30:18:07
Speaker 2
And to be honest, not too much. And I think I, like I said, most of my bread and bread items, I tend to keep them fairly easy. Um, we went more into, um, marmalade and so on.
00:30:18:11 – 00:30:18:24
Speaker 4
Okay.
00:30:19:24 – 00:30:47:13
Speaker 2
Where you have the fruit, but they don’t put them per se into the, into the bread or the dough. No,I think even on the, on the sweet side because we are not eating that much sweets, I think the best recipe for the whole family became the morning pancakes. The wholemeal pancakes, which I still believe is, um, is an item with, uh, with a lot of potential because then you have the milk, you can play around with the milk in there, you can play around with the raw sugars in there, if you want to. And for us, it is an item that um, the children like in the morning, because you have some sweetness, you have, it’s wholemeal, it’s a good, um, um cereal in the morning.
00:31:10:10 – 00:31:21:09
Speaker 2
You can combine it with a lot of stuff with the jams and the marmalade and so on. So that worked pretty well just to, to differentiate that from bread.
00:31:21:09 – 00:31:45:09
Speaker 4
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And as you say, with the whole grain as well, and you know, with the fermentation process it undergoes with sourdough. So you’re increasing there as well. The resistant starch is from from the acid bacteria. So again, you know, you’ve got this wonderful product that is going to help you feel fuller for longer. So as a breakfast product, a breakfast meal, then this can be really beneficial through the day.
00:31:45:09 – 00:32:09:16
Speaker 4
And it’s wonderful to hear that your children are sort of hooked on this as well. Yeah. And just to sort of pull in the sort of the jam side and you’re talking about this and, you know, quite often our jams a berry-based aren’t they? Say they’re sort of strawberries, blackberries, you know, maybe cherry as well. And again, very interestingly, the polyphenol contents in berries in particular provide really beneficial food for the akkermansia.
00:32:10:05 – 00:32:31:08
Speaker 4
So again, when you’ve seen a change and this particular type of family of of gut bacteria, you know, it might be sort of partly derived from this, you know, increase in the fruits and the polyphenol content as well. So, again, you know, all of these diverse foods are providing the fibers that providing the nutrients that are feeding the gut bacteria.
00:32:31:19 – 00:32:50:19
Speaker 4
And I think from my point of view as well, it’s you good to, you know, to really echo what Alex was saying about how important it is around blood pressure. And I was so thrilled to hear you say that, you know, your blood pressure had gone down because, you know, blood pressure is a real indicator, you know, so often of underlying issues because, you know, again, you know, our body wants to be in balance.
00:32:50:19 – 00:33:10:15
Speaker 4
And if our blood pressure isn’t in balance along with other areas, then, you know, there’s a little indicator that things aren’t quite right. So, you know, again, if we’re able to sort of, you know, modulate or reduce down inflammation in the body, improve blood sugar balance and all of these things sourdough does that and the diversity blends that are in the sourdough provide.
00:33:10:22 – 00:33:34:11
Speaker 4
You know, we really sort of onto a winner to be supporting health as well. So, you know, I think that that kind of, you know, really brings together, you know, what you’ve been doing – and for the family as well – and providing to see that the changes that have occurred as well in the gut bacteria. So have you sort of had any other sort of highlights through cooking all of this wonderful sourdough?
00:33:34:11 – 00:33:37:08
Speaker 4
So anything else has really sort of sprung to mind?
00:33:38:23 – 00:34:15:11
Speaker 2
But I, like I said, for me, it is, um, bread. It’s such an important item in the foods. I would say that it’s so important that it’s, uh, yeah, there’s this a healthy angle of bread is way up there, and that we bring it in a way that everybody in the family can enjoy it. I think, okay we are part of a test now, we understand, but at the end the day the the whole purpose is that the whole family becomes, um, enjoys this, okay.
00:34:15:13 – 00:34:41:17
Speaker 2
And enjoys better basic health, I would say, through something like breads and um, that’s really nice to experience that together with the family. Because my children, they do come in the bakery to help out and, and we make these together. And, um, and I guess it’s like this whole journey of healthier breads, healthier food.
00:34:41:17 – 00:34:56:03
Speaker 2
This is really something very inspiring for the whole family. And, um, and then obviously if you get the results which are going in the right direction, it is only a confirmation that that is the things we should be doing for the future.
00:34:56:04 – 00:35:16:20
Speaker 4
Absolutely. That spurs you on, doesn’t it? Yeah. And I think again, also it was really important you said about bringing the family together, and you said earlier on about rushing around and, you know, a lot of travel and eating on the go, sort of a in a past life. And I think, again, what bread is doing is it’s bringing us together, but it’s slowing us down when we’re eating as well because we’re enjoying it.
00:35:16:20 – 00:35:34:11
Speaker 4
We’re socialising more. And that’s such an important part of the physical process of digestion as well as the emotional and psychological side around food and how we feel. So, so yeah, we’ve kind of got a product here, haven’t we? One that is really sort of, you know, hitting lots of really important markers, a lot of important points.
00:35:34:15 – 00:35:50:00
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. I think, um, I’ve very happy with the revival of, of healthy breads towards the future and, and this key role that sourdough is going to play and will play in the, in the near future in bread.
00:35:50:04 – 00:36:09:04
Speaker 4
Well it’s thanks to yourself and Puratos, isn’t it, and Vanessa’s amazing work as well, and dedication to the research, that we’ve all been able to come together as a team. And we just feel very privileged to be part of this sort of research and you know, being able to move forward with such an important product.
00:36:09:21 – 00:36:33:24
Speaker 2
Absolutely. So we are all happy to be part of it. And there are a very fast-growing population out there in the markets getting interested as well. If you now see through this health crisis, through this COVID crisis, if you see how many people start to realise again how healthy bread can be just by making some at home, I think it’s worth a try.
00:36:34:00 – 00:36:39:13
Speaker 2
Is there is anything positive about this whole COVID crisis that it’s probably the revival of homemade bread, right?
00:36:39:15 – 00:37:05:08
Speaker 4
Absolutely. Well, it’s a real connection, isn’t it? Back to ourselves, back to source. And yeah, I think that, you know, really helps. Let’s end by saying if people want any more information, then obviously they can contact us, you know, through Instagram individually. You know, we all have our own personal pages that we enjoy, you know, sort of posting to and answering questions on, but also importantly through the club as well as, you know, the sourdough club and the sourdough school, just the important part in the education side as well.
00:37:05:08 – 00:37:19:22
Speaker 4
So hopefully people can come and join us through that as well. So. Well, thank you so much, Stefan, for joining us today. It’s been really wonderful to hear your story, and we look forward to working closely with you in the future.
00:37:19:22 – 00:37:26:06
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Thank you as well. Thank you to everybody. Thank you for all the analysis and all the tips and tricks. A lot of looking forward to really to to see the next steps in this beautiful project.
00:37:33:10 – 00:37:35:22
Speaker 4
Absolutely wonderful. We’ll be speaking with you soon.
00:37:36:21 – 00:37:39:18
Speaker 2
Sure. Yeah. Thank you. Bye bye.
